Nancy Knowlton <knowltonn@gmail.com>
Mon 8/6/2018 8:57 AM
To:
Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard@oberlin.edu>
Cc:
Kenneth Mattes;
coral-list@coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Just to clarify – annularis, franksi and faveolata are all in Orbicella (they are all very closely related, particularly annularis and franksi which can cross fertilize but spawn at different times, whereas faveolata is not interfertile with the other two). cavernosa is very very different genetically and also morphologically and reproductively (and is now in its own family). Both of these genera are actually more closely related to Pacific corals than to the corals in the Atlantic with which they were initially grouped.
Getting this correct is important and so is making sure they aren’t only in the fossil record.
cheers, nancy
DH
Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard@oberlin.edu>
Sun 8/5, 8:55 AM
Ken’s post strikes at the heart of the discussion, at least for me. In times long gone we had M. annularis(Ma) and M. cavernosa (Mc). The dogma was that, the columnar morph was an adaptation to higher sedimentation (polyps can manually shift sediment via tentacular action and mucous). The more massive morph (now O. fr and fav) was the default shape and the platy morph was the low-light adaptation – all of the same species. Then, Nancy Knowlton came along and used one of the earliest examples of genetics to show that Ma was actually three species (M fav, M. fr and A. ann), but that M fav and M fr were actually in a different genus (Orbicella). In the end Montastrea (some would prefer Montastraea to spice up the taxonomic discussion arguing in favor of the the rules of taxonomic nomenclature, only M annularis and M cavernosa remained in the original species..
I tell this brief but convoluted story for two reasons. First, many (most?) on the list may be unaware of this convoluted history and take it for granted that taxonomy is a stable enterprise, thanks to the lack of citation or earlier work in favor of the “latest” and “hottest” papers . Second, I return to the point that these “forms” are biologically responding to physical cues and that these characteristics are telling us important things unrelated to the names we attach to specific colonies. In the end, the challenge is to figure out how to respect the importance of both nomenclature and function. Taxonomy is incredibly important when we make comparisons across space (and, for us rock folks, add time – paleontologists have to wrestle with long-term temporal connections in which the roles of genetics vs environment vs evolution make life even more problematic).
But, to get back to what I understand as the underlying thread, I think that the argument should not be about the value of nomenclature vs functional morphology vs other environmental relationships and genetics. All have value and the goal is to figure out how to maintain the connections among the different views. We need to make sure we have the same species when we make site-to-site comparisons; if we are going to argue about diversity, we need to correctly separate and lump things. At the same time, we need to remember that morphologies are telling us things that the names don’t. And, in deference to Phil, reefs are disappearing while we build on the stereotype of scientists sitting in “ivory towers” ignoring the world around us.
My only concrete contribution to the thread is what I already said – might a picture be worth a thousand words when it comes to seeking help from the people who are really good at coral identification? If this is rambling, I apologize – I’m in northern Maine “on vacation” and am getting ready to go off the grid.
Dennis
Amanda Dwyer <dwyercorallist@gmail.com>
Sat 8/4, 6:22 PM
Hi Ken,
I personally have only been diving on the reefs since 2015 so I don’t have a knowledge of what they looked like before, but there are very few O. annularis and any I have seen are limited to very shallow ‘reefs’. The ‘franularis’ term was developed by a professor who did his post-doc in Bocas, so I would think it has been around for quite a while longer than the last 3 years, but unfortunately I cannot say how it has shifted.
I am even more curious about this now!
Thanks
Amanda